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 Post subject: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 9:03 pm 
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V1.506
- Fixed ATI 12.2 driver issue with OpenGL. This also optimized rendering
- Lowered mass bomb damage


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 9:33 pm 
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I'm sure someone will be happy about this.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Happy about OGL mess getting a much deserved fix. Mixed feelings about bomb nerf.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Indeed, why lower the Mass bomb Damage? it had finally gotten usefull as a weapon!
Maybe it has something to do with the difficultys??


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Mass bomb was always useless in my opinion anyway except very early game for nibbling high level blockades from 5000 meters cloaked if you lucked into a pounder or something. Over all a total waste of research points, a ship slot, and rez. By the time you get a helix or a mammoth taking a mass bomb into battle is suicide at worst or a waste of time at best.

Particle cannons and battle stations for the win. :)

P.S. The patch for me has the game running a little fast. Like if I were using an emu I'd turn on frame limiting hehe. It's positively flying.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 11:38 pm 
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Complaints about high frame rate are most welcome.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 11:47 pm 
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Heh, yeah, but seriously though, is there a game speed slider somewhere in the game? My machine isn't that hardcore, if the play speed is now limited only by processing power some of the uber rigs are going to have a real problem.

How I play is a heavy auto-turret build so the speed issue is kind of mitigated, but still, I'm sure other players take a much more hands on approach.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr, 2012 11:56 pm 
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i dont like the bomb nerf.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 1:04 am 
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I don't like any nerf. Especially in a single player game. If people think the mass bomb is over powered, don't use it. It's a bit like writing pro-censorship letters instead of just changing the channel hehe. Now if we're talking about nerfs to the AI, that's different because that's basically an environmental bug.

All games over time get a more vocal and obsessive pro-nerf crowd, the career gamers that think the game not being brutally hard undermines their own in-game accomplishments and skills, and to cater to them is to doom long term accessibility because to keep them happy it to declare war on new players.

This is a bit like the philosophy of "cheats" which as you might have guessed I think should be right in the options menu. Now granted for purposes of leader boards and high scores using a cheat should prevent you from placing, but to prevent cheats altogether, or to nerf player weapons as a way of controlling play, in a single player game or in single player mode is just needlessly... well, controlling.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 1:45 am 
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Joined: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 1:38 am
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I've been having many issues since the patch. I've seen numerous graphical glitches: mostly text being rendered as lines and boxes though once I've had a ship render as a giant garbled box for about 10 minutes. I've also noticed some other little graphical glitches as well, mostly things rendering as boxes for an instant or so and then snapping back to normal. These minor graphical glitches are pretty constant and remain after a reboot of my system.

I also had a CTD that kicked up an openGL error (posted below).

I did not have any of these problems prior to Patch 1.506

Code:
The NVIDIA OpenGL driver lost connection with the display
driver due to exceeding the Windows Time-Out limit and is unable to continue.
The application must close.


Error code: 7
Visit http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3007 for more information.


I'm running Windows 7 64-bit with a Gforce GTX 560 Ti.

I shall attempt to play the game in DirectX compatibility to see if that helps things.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 2:50 am 
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Location: Norway
Try other games, this might be hardware problem!


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:40 am 
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Joined: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 1:38 am
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Must have been my drivers, I did a clean reinstall of the nvidia drivers and it seems to be working much better now.

Guess it was just coincidence that the driver corruption overlapped with the game patch.

Never got a chance to try it on another game, but likely I would have had some weird behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:44 am 
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Yes this driver issue was due to a glFinish() call that is essentially deprecated and we no longer call at the end of rendering a frame. Both GarageGames and ATI thought removing it was a very good idea. It may simply be a coincidence, we can hope anyhow. We have about 1000 new players today, so if the problem was widespread, I would be expecting to hear of more issues. This is of course a rendering change though, which is always scary, so we will keep our eyes open.

As to the mass bomb damage reduction. This wasn't actually done to make the player weaker (as there are plenty of OP player configs already) it was more done to provide a break to the players who would get destroyed whenever a helix would spawn. I am curious about how people feel we should balance them. We don't want to make SPAZ too hard for new players to pick up. Most of the people on here are pretty hardcore experts by now.

Maybe we need an insane++ mode or something?


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:45 am 
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Phew. Looks like the rendering part of the patch is good then :) We were writing at the same time it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:56 am 
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Joined: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 1:38 am
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Yeah, it was just a really weirdly timed coincidence. I played SPAZ this morning and everything was fine, saw a patch this evening and started to play. I had a graphical freak show for about an hour and then the game crashed with an OpenGL error. Given that the Opengl had been tweaked, I jumped the gun on my conclusion before going in and doing a standard driver re-install.

Now everything appears to be copacetic. Just finished playing another hour without any freakiness.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 6:45 am 
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A few problems, please bear with me. Remember this is patched to v1.506 via steam.

INTEL-SSD520 | WIN7-HOME-PREM-SP1-64BIT | 8GB-RAM | INTEL-Q9540 | ATI-6970-2GB

1) 2560x1600 interface is too small, none of the interface elements scale appropriately at this resolution. It is almost impossible to play the game at this resolution, not because it is slow, but because it is unreadable.

2) Before and After patching SPAZ to v1.506 via STEAM, SPAZ processor affinity is set to 1 by default, it should be 'max cores'. It is fixable by changing the affinity manually at startup -every time-, but I hope that you can fix this so I don't have to. I even got off my ass and made you a nice screenshot.

Why on earth can't I use IMG BBCodes?

Screenshot
http://i44.tinypic.com/nqbak6.png

Incidentally I wanted to congratulate the developers on a Extremely Well done add-on (bounty hunters) that has gotten me to play this game again on hard, for the 5th time! thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 8:10 am 
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Blorfy, maybe a idea to use might be to add a Free-roam mode that unlocks after u first finish the game(like they do in Mass effect 2) and(indeed) add a Nightmare mode or something for the real hardcore players ;)


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 8:18 am 
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@Innomen, for high end rigs that over-exceed the game, there is ways of playing it... Not the best but there is.

1) You can set core affinity to 1 core and have all the computer processes running off it.
2) You can play two games at the same time and have the 2nd alt-tabbed so it eats up processor power
3) You can "underclock" your cores by reducing the amount of power that is sent to them (though this may or may not eff up your machine)


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 11:20 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 11:01 am
Posts: 2
Hi,

after the recent patch I recieve heavy frame drops mostly as a ship warps in or when a disruptor fires and minor frame drops all the time.
However the game ran fluidly a week ago and I assume it has something to do with the Patch 1.506 and its changes.

I'm playing on a Lenovo W520 (Intel Core i7-2720QM with Nvidia Optimus, 8GiB RAM, and a Nvidia Quadro 2000M) with Windows 7 64-Bit and latest drivers.

I tried DX compatibilty mode also, but it's worse than the normal rendering mode.

Is there anything I can do to get the game at a stable framerate again?
It's really not playable at the moment. :(


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 2:09 pm 
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thoth wrote:
Hi,

after the recent patch I recieve heavy frame drops mostly as a ship warps in or when a disruptor fires and minor frame drops all the time.
However the game ran fluidly a week ago and I assume it has something to do with the Patch 1.506 and its changes.

I'm playing on a Lenovo W520 (Intel Core i7-2720QM with Nvidia Optimus, 8GiB RAM, and a Nvidia Quadro 2000M) with Windows 7 64-Bit and latest drivers.

I tried DX compatibilty mode also, but it's worse than the normal rendering mode.

Is there anything I can do to get the game at a stable framerate again?
It's really not playable at the moment. :(


Try this:

1) Double click SPAZ shortcut so it opens the setup page, DO NOT launch the game.
2) Hold down CTRL+SHIFT+ESC so the TASK MANAGER appears.
3) In the 'Applications Tab' find |SpacePiratesAndZombies| then right click |SpacePiratesAndZombies| and select 'Go To Process'
4) Now right click SpazGame.exe and select "Set Affinity".
5) Select <All Processors> and click [OK]
6) [Close] TASK MANAGER
7) Go back to SPAZ setup page and UN-check "DirectX Compatibility Mode" and then click [Continue] Enjoy!

If the above did help you, then you will need to do this everytime you start SPAZ, the affinity settings are not remembered.

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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 2:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2012 2:27 am
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Overnight my stealthy bomb build went from viable and tough (on insane) to being completely unable to dent even a tough medium. I am disappointed to say the least. I came into the game in the recent sale after damage was increased and just finished my first normal play-through. I never had a problem with mass bomb damage. Sure they could chew me up and spit me out, but they were never cheap kills, I never felt like there was nothing I could have done. It was actually pretty rewarding to dodge a clutch bomb.

As such I propose this change as an alternative:
a scaling reduction to mass bomb snare effect based on difficulty (preferably only applied to your ships so that they remain viable offensive choices).

Say easy only gets a 50% snare, normal 75%, and above normal gets full snare.

This will keep bombs as the scary things that need to be dodged, but make it easier for the new players to do so. It is fun and rewarding to both dodge bombs and use them, and making them weaker turns them into an anti-fun nuisance rather than the fun life-death moments they were.

EDIT: if anyone has a way for me to roll back this patch I would love to hear it, I don't really want to start over till this gets sorted. I am on the steam version of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Hmm this is a real tough one. It doesn't seem like we will be able to satisfy everyone with this change in a timely fashion. For some people the bombs were insta death and we were getting some pretty vitriolic email. For others, they quietly liked the challenge. I think what I can do for now is provide the old script files here so you can have the harder bombs if desired. It is a simple unzip, copy and paste to the gameScripts\datablocks\weapons directory. Files incoming. I hope this is a decent resolution for the time being.


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Location: Norway
-oldbombs=true ;)


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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 3:23 pm 
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Here is that file. I also included a candidate file for the next tuning pass. It is half way between the old bombs and the new bombs. (old bombs being very strong, and new bombs being too weak) Opinions on the candidate would be great, keeping in mind only something like 5% of people play on insane and of those I think it is less than half complete it. Ideally we are looking for maximum fun on the veteran level with implied risk in actions, but not frustration. Opinions and ideas welcome.


Attachments:
File comment: in gameScripts/datablocks/weapons/

This is the 1.505 bombs

old_mass_bombs.zip [3.36 KiB]
Downloaded 300 times
File comment: in gameScripts/datablocks/weapons/

This is the potential next release

candidate_mass_bombs.zip [3.36 KiB]
Downloaded 301 times
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 Post subject: Re: V1.506
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr, 2012 4:06 pm 
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People are free to disagree with me, but my take on bombs:

They are very good vs small ships. They are unable to get away fast enough due to the glue.
They are very poor vs large ships (or at best unreliable). The ships are not slowed enough.

My suggestion is to make the gluepower unrelated to victim size, and keep the old power of them.


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